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Author |
Topic:
Faith
Healing and alternative meds #2 |
jonah
Member
Member # 56
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posted December 29, 2002 12:56 AM
My dear friends;
My heart goes out to "philedelphia" at the loss of her beloved
husband, and I can feel her agony about the useless operation
that was performed upon him in his last days on this planet...It
is beyond comprehension that they would do such a thing and
yet; they do it all the time; even when they know that it's
of no use...
I was diagnosed with (squamous cell cancer) last January;2002;
and I had been scheduled to go for radiation treatment by
my oncologist...Somehow I just could not go through with it
as I believe that the Lord can heal me if He really wishes
to; and if He does not wish to; then who am I to argue...My
heart was very heavy indeed that I had succumbed to the prognosis
of "death" by the oncologist and other professionals at the
cancer clinic in Victoria; BC; Canada...I was told that if
I did not submit to their radiation treatment that there was
NO HOPE for me...I was assured that this cancer would spread
to my throat and into my lungs and kill me within 10 months...I
just couldn't go through with it and cancelled the appointment
with the radiation "death rays" and immediatley I began feeling
better...
Once I had made that decision I began praying that the Lord
would lead me to a method whereby I could be healed, as it
appeared that He was not just going to reach out His hand
and do it in a miraculous fashion...It was therefore up to
me to reach an understanding as to what cancer is and what
has brought these tumours in my mouth into existance...And
so I've been studying and trying alternative methods of healing
which I've found would begin to work in halting the progress
of the tumour under my tongue, but then lose their affectiveness
and the tumour would begin advancing again...
I've never lost "faith" that somehow the Lord was going to
step in and be that "lamp unto my feet and a light unto my
path", and finally an old friend who'd just found out about
my disease, sent me a "parasite cleansing kit" that was part
of a program put together by Dr. Hulga Clark...I've been on
this program now for about a month and I can testify to the
fact that the tumour which had begun pressing against the
lower gums has DECREASED IN SIZE, and in fact decreases more
and more each day...Where there was a snake like skin (like
fish scales) on the bottom of my mouth where the tumour was;
there is now "new skin" as though it were miraculously healed...
As far as I'm concerned I am healed..."by His stripes we are
healed"...and the Lord has led me to this alternative method
which is working for me and many hundreds of others that I
know of...From what I can understand of DrClark's theory regarding
cancers of all kinds, is that cancer is the result of toxins
such as isopropyl alcohol and benzine being in our digestive
systems and these toxin's interaction with the various parasites
that normally inhabit our bodies...Put these toxins and certain
parasites together and you have an unnatural chemistry brewing
in our systems which results in cancer...
You can check out www.drclark.net
and read her material yourself...I have to admit that I am
after all very "subjective" as I've experienced the healing
that ridding myself of these parasites has brought about...I
am now at the stage where I begin cleaning up the kidneys
and then on to the liver...The cancer is no longer malignant
and almost all of the pain is gone; and I feel very definitely
that I'll be wearing my bottom teeth again in a few weeks
time if the tumour continues to recede at this rate.
Godbless you all, and don't be afraid to discover new methods
of dealing with an old problem...There's hope you and prayer
changes things...
Posts:
2 | From: Nanaimo | Registered: Mar 2002
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Brian
Hill
Administrator
Member # 4
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posted December 29, 2002 04:08 PM
I have been thinking about this post most of the day before
posting a reply to it. I want to preface my reply by stating
that I consider myself someone who has a rich spiritual side,
which coexists with the scientific side of my thinking without
conflict. That side of me has been both tempered and philosophically
polished by deaths of brothers in arms in far away places,
diseases of my own and my family, and a life of being involved
with health related issues.
I have two problems with the previous post. The first is that
it suggests prayer and an abandonment of conventional treatments
as a viable alternative to proven medical protocols. The second
is that it also endorses an unproven alternative therapy in
lieu of those which have established, scientifically documentable
track records. Both of these avenues of thought in my opinion
are dangerous, as the likely outcome will be that patients
following them will not survive.
I do not wish this message board to turn into a theological
debate on the existence of God, nor any of the ramifications
of an exploration of that nature. Including things like his/her
ability to intervene in illness, morbidity, or the outcome
of sporting events. (I never really considered that any God
I believed in was actually listening to my coach in the locker
room when were getting suited up for a game and had a group
prayer before hitting the field. Surely He had more important
issues to deal with such as famine and disease.) Further,
I can't remember the exact number, but this year alone I have
read several news articles regarding parents who, devoutly
putting all their trust in a divine being and fervent prayer,
stood by and did not take their child with a curable illness
to a doctor, and subsequently let the child die. This seems
to happen every year, and the end of this type of event will
probably never come. But it reflects the likelyhood of devine
intervention. If it is possible, it is highly unreliable as
an alternative to treatments. This board is not the place
for this type of religious debate. But I wish to state that
I personally do not wish anyone who has a chance of beating
this disease to choose a path other than those which have
proven results. The very notion of not using the tools and
methods which are available to us is unsound, even from a
theological perspective, as it contradicts the notion of free
will, something that was, stated often by believers, given
to us by God himself. The very concept of free will includes
responsibility for outcomes. In a previous post regarding
these same issues I related the story of a man trapped during
a flood. He was driven to the roof of his house by rising
water, his life in peril. As the water reached his rooftop
a man in a small boat came by and offered to try to get him
off. He declined, saying that he had faith in God's plan,
and God would surely save him. As the water reached his ankles,
a helicopter came overhead, but he again declined to board
saying that he had faith that God would spare him. Finally
the current swept him off the roof and he was drowned. When
the man arrived at heavens gate, he asked God why he had not
saved him, as he had lived a devout life, prayed, and trusted
in Him. God replied, Hey, I sent you the man in the boat,
and then I sent you the helicopter. We have the free will
to make intelligent choices. If God has created all things,
he also created the scientific knowledge that we have, and
I would assume that would include the use of radiation and
other methods to effect our cures, but it require us to exercise
our free will to choose them. Does radiation have some negative
side effects? Damn straight it does. But I would prefer to
live with those side effects rather than die. Surgical removal
of a gangrenous limb has some pretty severe consequences,
but would you rather keep it and perish? There are always
consequences. Radiation has cured hundreds of thousands of
people. Not choosing it because of its toxic effects is irrational
given the alternative.
As to the use of unproven alternative treatments IN LIEU of
conventional treatments, this also is Russian roulette in
my book. The only unproven treatments I would ever consider
would be medically supervised clinical trials, and even those
would be a last resort choice for me. I considered taking
the link to Dr. Clark's website out of the previous message.
But having now spent a great deal of time reading that site,
I am leaving it. This is not because I think there is anything
of value in that site. On the contrary, it is yet another
person making money off of the hopes of the ill, filled with
proposed theories that belie any actual knowledge of how cancer
occurs. Anyone who buys one of the doctors "Zappers" or believes
that cancer is the result of interaction of parasites in our
body and chemicals, needs to do further research before spending
cent number one, or adhering to the quackery that she proposes.
By the way, just for the record, unless you live in a third
world country it is unlikely you have any parasites living
in your body, not that they are even remotely related to cancer.
We do have organisms living in us, which are not "us," such
as saprophytes like Candida fungus that actually symbiotically
help us by consuming dead cellular material, and other organisms
that live in our digestive tract, also symbiotically. I could
write a book about the half-truths and total inaccuracies
in that web site, but I think that anyone who visits it will
certainly get the idea. Please note that Dr. Clark has been
arrested, her web site has disclaimers everywhere stating
that none of it is medical advice and nothing she is endorsing
or SELLING has any proven medical substantiation, the so called
testimonials could have been written by anyone since there
is no way of following up on them, (the site clearly states
that "they are individual results and we do not claim that
they are typical results that consumers will generally achieve"),
there is no claim of scientific evidence of any success of
any of her products or treatment protocols, and on and on.
This is medical quackery at its pinnacle. One of the problems
with the web in general is the proliferation of sites designed
to prey on the trusting and needy in medical crisis. The FDA
cannot keep up with what it takes to shut down these money
gins (which spring up again the following week under a new
web address) as they could in the print media days before
the web. It is truly sad that honest people are taken in by
people like this. It is nothing more than another scam to
separate people from their hard earned money.
I will only say this to Jonah. I wish you would reconsider
your position. That you have survived an early cancer for
11 months is no miracle, and it is unlikely that it is the
result of Dr. Clark's ludicrous ideas, or at this early stage
a result of the Lords intervention on your behalf. Even I
had my oral cancer for almost three years before it was found.
This is said only to illustrate that you can "survive" oral
cancer without treatment... at least for awhile. If you have
a current biopsy showing the existence of a malignancy, and
somewhere down the road you find that you have a new one that
is completely cancer free, I will give your ideas serious
consideration, as will the whole world and the hundreds of
thousands of individuals dying from various cancers. Do you
not think that if a cure for cancer as simple as a detoxifying
regime actually worked, that these thousands of deaths every
week would not be stopped by now? You may even survive 5 years
without treatments, but that would seem unlikely. The fact
that some tissue in your mouth has changed appearance is also
not an indication of a cure. It is what is happening on a
cellular level throughout your body which cannot be seen that
is important. In a search of spontaneous remissions (that
would include those from divine intervention and treatments
substantially composed of herbal remedies, or so called detoxification
protocols.) for oral cancer I could not find one instance
which has been reported. Your most likely route to survival
would be to accept sound, proven medical treatments.
Positive religious beliefs can be a powerful adjunct to making
it through treatments for cancer. Those with strong belief
systems that support their emotional well being, do seem to
handle the stress of it all, live or die, better than those
without. That also includes strong belief systems that do
not include a belief in a Biblical God. Man is a spiritual
being, and I do not wish to be perceived as promoting any
other idea. But, I urge anyone who reads these types of posts
to take the information to your treating doctors for their
opinions prior to embarking on any treatment protocol you
find on the web. There is no cure for cancer available on
the web.. at any price. On the web misinformation and downright
lies can be published on web pages with little or no repercussions.
There is no control over what people say on the web, nor the
validity of those words. As to whether or not a God can or
will save your life, that is between you and him, or perhaps
her depending on your viewpoint.
--------------------
Brian, stage 3 oral cancer survivor. OCF Founder and Director.
"The first responsibility of a leader is to define reality.
The last is to say thank you. In between, the leader is a
servant."
Posts:
422 | From: Laguna Beach, CA | Registered:
Mar 2002
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Gary
Supporting
Member (50+ posts)
Member # 457
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posted January 04, 2003 12:37 PM
Hi Jonah,
You do know that the name "Lucifer" means "point of light".
Are you sure which "lord" you are submitting to? My mother
lived many years after her 2 major cancer surgeries (and actually
died of a heart attack). It was forecast in the scriptures
that we will have many false teachers and prophets in the
end times - are you one of them? (Obviously "Dr" Clark is,
at least according to the authorities and it does say in the
scriptures that we are to submit to such authorities doesn't
it?) God created science as a search for the truth. Have you
thought about what the outcome of your post will be on the
many of us that CAN be cured through medical means? Your post
will be a death sentence for some who are looking for an easier
way out of which there is none.
Posts:
51 | From: San Francisco CA | Registered:
Nov 2002
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